ageet Forums

tripex · Joined: 14 Jul 2008 Posts: 7 Location: Berlin

How deep is AGEphone Mobile embedded into the Windows Mobile system? I can use it from the native address book. Fine, but how I can chose whether I want to use VoIP or GSM?

Is AGEphone Mobile alway running in the background as a service?

Am I reachable via GSM AND VoIP at the same time?

What happens when I get a GSM call during a VoIP conversation and vice versa?

What about switching to the handsfree option during a call?

Do I log in into my WLAN via DHCP automatically every time I enter the zone or do I need to do something?

Is this dependent from the model?

What about battery drain during WLAN scanning, WLAN holding and actual VoIP'ing?

Michael · Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:37 pm Post subject:

Many interesting questions! Let's see if I can answer them all Wink

> How deep is AGEphone Mobile embedded into the Windows Mobile system? I can use it from the native address book. Fine, but how I can chose whether I want to use VoIP or GSM?

Right now the normal address book and what you see in AGEphone Mobile use the same data, but you dial only VoIP calls from AGEphone Mobile and only PSTN (normal) calls from your standard address book.

> Is AGEphone Mobile alway running in the background as a service?

AGEphone Mobile runs as long as you want it to until you close it manually. If the PPC goed into standby it is still available if you use a mobile data connection. Please note that this doesn't count for WiFi as it gets turned off once the device shuts down.

> Am I reachable via GSM AND VoIP at the same time?

Yes, you are reachable via both technologies. Some older PPCs have the bad habit of shutting down the data connection when you receive a call over the PSTN network. In this case you would loose your VoIP connection of course

> What happens when I get a GSM call during a VoIP conversation and vice versa?

If your phone keeps the data connection up you should be able to call yourself Wink

In other words: Simultaneous calls are possible.

> What about switching to the handsfree option during a call?

AGEphone Mobile currently doesn't support a handsfree option as previously it would use the external (amplified) speaker anyway and no matter what. Once we can speaker switch more models we will have to give a handsfree option a thought. Currently the softphone doesn't support any echo cancellation though and we can not recommend to use free speaking.

> Do I log in into my WLAN via DHCP automatically every time I enter the zone or do I need to do something?

AGEphone Mobile can start your WiFi once you start up the program, but everything else depends on your WLAN settings. If you have setup the network before it should be able to connect automatically.

> Is this dependent from the model?

Unless the vendor has implemented his own management software the WLAN functions are more or less the same in in every WM device (standard / professional respectively).

> What about battery drain during WLAN scanning, WLAN holding and actual VoIP'ing?

WiFi will drain your battery in no time as it uses quite a lot of power compared to 2G / 3G cellular network connections. This is even worse as for maintaining a WiFi connection the device has to be on constantly whereas with a cellular connection it can go into standby. AGEphone itself uses next to nothing in standby, a little with the G.711 codec and a bit more with the GSM codec. Keep in mind that the softphone runs flawlessly even on old 200 MHz phones and I guess that puts AM's energy consumption into the right light.

I hope to have answered all of your questions for now and look forward to read from you again in case you have more Smile

tripex · Joined: 14 Jul 2008 Posts: 7 Location: Berlin

Thank you very much for clearing my questions!

>but you dial only VoIP calls from AGEphone Mobile and only PSTN (normal) calls from your standard address book.

So it's not possible to put a VoIP call directly from the missed calls list for example?

>If the PPC goed into standby it is still available if you use a mobile data connection. Please note that this doesn't count for WiFi as it gets turned off once the device shuts down.

Oh oh. If I understand this right, it means using AGEphone Mobile only via your home WLAN is not really practicable? Or is there any way to hold the WLAN connection for incoming calls the whole day?

>Yes, you are reachable via both technologies. Some older PPCs have the bad habit of shutting down the data connection when you receive a call over the PSTN network. In this case you would loose your VoIP connection of course.

OK, is this switching off behavior also applicable for the HTC Trinity? Do the affected units establish the interrupted WLAN connection automatically after the call?

>Simultaneous calls are possible.

Well, that was not really my intention BECAUSE it's not possible with one unit or is there a mechanism to switch, hold and so on for VoIP/GSM calls?

>AGEphone Mobile currently doesn't support a handsfree option as previously it would use the external (amplified) speaker anyway and no matter what. Once we can speaker switch more models we will have to give a handsfree option a thought. Currently the softphone doesn't support any echo cancellation though and we can not recommend to use free speaking.

I'm confused. Are there 3 audio speakers in a phone? One earspeaker, one freehands speaker (at the front?) and one speaker at the back? Why there is a speaker at the back anyway?

>AGEphone Mobile can start your WiFi once you start up the program, but everything else depends on your WLAN settings. If you have setup the network before it should be able to connect automatically.

Assuming I let AGEphone Mobile running all the time then it works without any regular action at least with one/my WLAN? If not, when do I need to put hands on?

>WiFi will drain your battery in no time as it uses quite a lot of power compared to 2G / 3G cellular network connections.

So basically holding a WLAN connection is almost the same power consumption than actually using the WLAN for VoIP'ing. Can you say how much more a WLAN conversation (not far from the router) uses the battery compared to a GSM call? I guess UMTS is somewhere in the middle.

>I hope to have answered all of your questions for now and look forward to read from you again in case you have more Smile

Yeah, thank you very much again. It helps a lot but unfortunately I need to say that it seems there is no practical replacement for my Dual GSM/WLAN handy at the moment. And this handy is not even really state of the art. But I don't blame you. Compared to other SIP clients I'm sure you did the best possible. I guess, I need to wait one or two OS smartphone generations before I replace my Tungsten C + Dual handy solution.

Michael · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:44 pm Post subject:

And here goes for a new round of answers:

> So it's not possible to put a VoIP call directly from the missed calls list for example?

No, because as of now AGEphone has no connection to the normal address book. It merely mirrors if you hit the "Contacts" button in the application

> Oh oh. If I understand this right, it means using AGEphone Mobile only via your home WLAN is not really practicable? Or is there any way to hold the WLAN connection for incoming calls the whole day?

I highly doubt that there is any battery that would last for a whole day even with turned off display. I am using a Sharp device here in Japan with a 3,600 mAh battery and it doesn't last a whole day even with just 3G enabled and a blank screen.

> OK, is this switching off behavior also applicable for the HTC Trinity? Do the affected units establish the interrupted WLAN connection automatically after the call?

I don't think newer PPCs are affected by this. That problem was quite common with WM 2003 devices.

> Well, that was not really my intention BECAUSE it's not possible with one unit or is there a mechanism to switch, hold and so on for VoIP/GSM calls?

You could hear both calls at the same time and hold the normal PSTN or VoIP call, but there is no simple switching mechanism.

> I'm confused. Are there 3 audio speakers in a phone? One earspeaker, one freehands speaker (at the front?) and one speaker at the back? Why there is a speaker at the back anyway?

Just the earspeaker and an external mono / stereo set. All VoIP apps usually use the external speaker(s) and hence the handsfree mode (which uses just that) didn't make any sense before.

> Assuming I let AGEphone Mobile running all the time then it works without any regular action at least with one/my WLAN? If not, when do I need to put hands on?

It works until you run out of battery or there is a WLAN disruption. In this case AGEphone might not be able to reconnect automatically.

> So basically holding a WLAN connection is almost the same power consumption than actually using the WLAN for VoIP'ing. Can you say how much more a WLAN conversation (not far from the router) uses the battery compared to a GSM call? I guess UMTS is somewhere in the middle.

It is in the middle, but I have no exact figures. I just know that WiFi on usually drains the device in a few hours and I never found it of much use without a power cord attached (which defies the concept of mobility).

> Yeah, thank you very much again. It helps a lot but unfortunately I need to say that it seems there is no practical replacement for my Dual GSM/WLAN handy at the moment. And this handy is not even really state of the art. But I don't blame you. Compared to other SIP clients I'm sure you did the best possible. I guess, I need to wait one or two OS smartphone generations before I replace my Tungsten C + Dual handy solution.

Once data services evolve this will become a non-issue. Of course, AGEphone Mobile has still a long way to go, too and if there are any specific features that you would like to see in there please don't hesitate to let me know! Smile

tripex · Joined: 14 Jul 2008 Posts: 7 Location: Berlin

Thanks for your answers again!

>I highly doubt that there is any battery that would last for a whole day even with turned off display. I am using a Sharp device here in Japan with a 3,600 mAh battery and it doesn't last a whole day even with just 3G enabled and a blank screen.

My Pirelli DP-L10 does. But it's not Windows. Wink

http://www.sipgate.de/lang/de/de_anleitung_pirelli_engl.pdf

Page 117 could be interesting for you. Standby is practically just one day with GSM+WLAN scan every 3 minutes, because my router is 2 walls away.

The battery is only 1000mAh!
https://secure.sipgate.de/voipshop/pirelli/ersatzakku_fuer_pirelli_dp-l_10

>I don't think newer PPCs are affected by this. That problem was quite common with WM 2003 devices.

You are right. The Touch Cruise reconnects without a wimp.

>You could hear both calls at the same time and hold the normal PSTN or VoIP call, but there is no simple switching mechanism.

In a few days I'll try what happens when a VoIP call comes in during a GSM call or vise versa. I hope there is a practical solution otherwise it's quite useless.

>[...] if there are any specific features that you would like to see in there please don't hesitate to let me know! Smile

I'll let you know after testing. But for know I know, I'd like to have the ability to switch during a call between handsfree and ear mode like usual. Basically I'd like to use AGEphone just like a part of the OS without knowing that it is a special application. But if this requires too much resources or battery to hook on the OS then I don't like it either.

CU

Michael · Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:38 pm Post subject:

An interesting device that shows what can be done with optimization and specialization. Of course a modern smartphone has way more features and truly is a Jack of all Trades... at the expense of really shining in any field I guess. I wonder why the WiFi doesn't last any longer though if you're on the safe side for a whole day with such a small battery.

As for more integration, there are clear limits what you can and can't do in WM and it remains to be seen how far we can get AM integrated into the OS so that people notice very little of it being a 3rd party app. Your other request will make it into AGEphone Mobile for sure eventually. Once we support the internal speaker on more devices there will be a proper switching function.

tripex · Joined: 14 Jul 2008 Posts: 7 Location: Berlin